usvi-on-line
Grande Bay Pool Photos
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chicagoans
- Posts: 1586
- Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:51 pm
- Location: IL
Aside from the looks of it, the shady business, etc... I think some of the objections to places like Grande Bay stem from environmental concerns. For example, during a heavy tropical shower, what's the runoff from a place that big? Have the developers adequately landscaped and made other accomodations so all that runoff doesn't flow into the sea? Maybe they have, and kudos to them if that's the case. But without strictly enforced zoning, places like this can have a very negative impact on the surrounding area (including the neighbors.)
As far as the pictures go... well to me it doesn't look like STJ. It's generic enough that it could be on a touristy beach anywhere, like Miami or Cancun.
Not saying that people shouldn't stay there now that it's been built. If it sat empty that wouldn't do anyone any good.
As far as the pictures go... well to me it doesn't look like STJ. It's generic enough that it could be on a touristy beach anywhere, like Miami or Cancun.
Not saying that people shouldn't stay there now that it's been built. If it sat empty that wouldn't do anyone any good.
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justanotherday
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:31 am
- Location: someplace in paradise
Rumor has it the owners are considering a name change from Grand Bay Resort to something else. I wonder if the new name will contain the word concrete? Cruz Bay's Concrete Complex or CBCC for short. I think the word Resort should be left off since the complex does not resemble a resort.
I know that many like Grand Bay and can't wait to get back or visit for the first time. It's a shame that no one in the government cared enough to stop construction before it got out of hand. There was a stop order for zoning violations, but according to Kelly Frye, those issues were resolved. How? No one knows. That's a long time ago. Now, we are all waiting to see if DPNR's commissioner will stick to his word and pull the CO's if Bay Isles doesn't address the lack of parking or install their lift systems.
The Grand Bay complex does not meet one zoning code in the territory. Simply put, those structures do not belong any place in the VI's.
For those that like, love, and stay at the complex, imagine if the same thing happened in your home town or your vacation hometown, I'm sure you would be have a sick feeling for a very long time. Unfortunately, money is the driving force here, but money can do a lot of evil as witnessed and experienced by many islanders and homeowners. Unfortunately, when problems surface, the guests will all get to go home and the locals will have to live with the consequences.
I know that many like Grand Bay and can't wait to get back or visit for the first time. It's a shame that no one in the government cared enough to stop construction before it got out of hand. There was a stop order for zoning violations, but according to Kelly Frye, those issues were resolved. How? No one knows. That's a long time ago. Now, we are all waiting to see if DPNR's commissioner will stick to his word and pull the CO's if Bay Isles doesn't address the lack of parking or install their lift systems.
The Grand Bay complex does not meet one zoning code in the territory. Simply put, those structures do not belong any place in the VI's.
For those that like, love, and stay at the complex, imagine if the same thing happened in your home town or your vacation hometown, I'm sure you would be have a sick feeling for a very long time. Unfortunately, money is the driving force here, but money can do a lot of evil as witnessed and experienced by many islanders and homeowners. Unfortunately, when problems surface, the guests will all get to go home and the locals will have to live with the consequences.
Who is on the St. John zoning committee? Are they residents of St. John or do they come from somewhere else? Reading this with my outsider glasses on--the zoning committee must come from off-island. I can't figure out how anyone on an island so small could NOT have a vested interest. How could they even find someone foolish enough to accept a payoff (unless St. John doesn't have a zoning committee on island)? I would find it terrifying to accept money especially when my entire community is aware of it and my motives.
And please be angry with the people who earned your anger and don't displace it on this forum community.
Gina
And please be angry with the people who earned your anger and don't displace it on this forum community.
Gina
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justanotherday
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:31 am
- Location: someplace in paradise
It's too late now, but the zoning code does stipulate that all plans must be approved by zoning first before any building permits are issued. This applies to all building permits. This step was omitted in the approval process for Grand Bay.
PS: The former commissioner is in a gated community (jail) for nine years and the chief building officer is in another gated community (jail) for 24 months, I think. Can't remember how long his stay is for. They were both found guilty for fraud, etc. Federal violation in this instance.
I believe individuals have a right to their opinion, even on this forum. If Anthony thinks something is not appropriate, he'll remove the comments since he owns the site. It goes both ways. It's just that some people agree that GB is a great place to stay and others don't since they want the laws followed. Even now, the zoning code outlines what can be done about the situation.
PS: The former commissioner is in a gated community (jail) for nine years and the chief building officer is in another gated community (jail) for 24 months, I think. Can't remember how long his stay is for. They were both found guilty for fraud, etc. Federal violation in this instance.
I believe individuals have a right to their opinion, even on this forum. If Anthony thinks something is not appropriate, he'll remove the comments since he owns the site. It goes both ways. It's just that some people agree that GB is a great place to stay and others don't since they want the laws followed. Even now, the zoning code outlines what can be done about the situation.
We first got to STJ in the 80s. It was a very different place then. Many people who like the island now really wouldn't have liked it 25 years ago. And many people who fell in love with it 25 years ago are deeply saddened by what's been lost. There has been enormous change and I don't see many of the changes as being improvements. The physical changes have been major, but the cultural change may be equally as significant. STJ in the 80s still felt like the Caribbean. Now the West Indian population and culture has become increasingly peripheral, being supplanted by a kind of island lifestyle developed by continentals. I don't have the sense I used to of being a visitor in another culture. Most businesses are owned and staffed by folks from the mainland. It's very possible that someone can spend a week on STJ and have no contact with a West Indian once they pick up their vehicle. It become increasingly Americanized and that's exactly what some visitors like about it.
Peter Bay used to be where The Kite was, nothing like what it has become. Grande Bay and Sirenusa are abominations to people who fell in love with the island partly because there weren't places like that there. The island has changed, so the people who enjoy visiting it has changed. People who didn't see it before accept it as it is. One day, on some forum, people may be lavishing praise on Sirenusa, too. It's a different tourist now, with different expectations.
A few years ago my wife finally got sick of listening to me whine about the changes on STJ. The last time we went to the Caribbean we stayed on Virgin Gorda. I was much happier. It was a much better fit. It still had much more of what I fell in love with on STJ and much less of what I've come to dislike there.
Of course people on VG told us that we should have come years ago, before the changes started. And it reminded me that when we were first on STJ back in the 80s, people told us we should have been there 10 years earlier, before all the changes started.
I have some idea of what it's like for residents like Hugo and Zero. We have old friends who settled there years ago and they're wondering if they can stay there anymore. It is what it is, but sometimes I long for yesterday.
Peter Bay used to be where The Kite was, nothing like what it has become. Grande Bay and Sirenusa are abominations to people who fell in love with the island partly because there weren't places like that there. The island has changed, so the people who enjoy visiting it has changed. People who didn't see it before accept it as it is. One day, on some forum, people may be lavishing praise on Sirenusa, too. It's a different tourist now, with different expectations.
A few years ago my wife finally got sick of listening to me whine about the changes on STJ. The last time we went to the Caribbean we stayed on Virgin Gorda. I was much happier. It was a much better fit. It still had much more of what I fell in love with on STJ and much less of what I've come to dislike there.
Of course people on VG told us that we should have come years ago, before the changes started. And it reminded me that when we were first on STJ back in the 80s, people told us we should have been there 10 years earlier, before all the changes started.
I have some idea of what it's like for residents like Hugo and Zero. We have old friends who settled there years ago and they're wondering if they can stay there anymore. It is what it is, but sometimes I long for yesterday.
Its interesting to look at the drawings for the project prepared by the good local firm of Barefoot Architect---doesn't bear much resemblance to the final product.
http://www.barefootarchitects.com/gb.html
http://www.barefootarchitects.com/gb.html
---Jim
Actually, the administration building does somewhat resemble the drawing. For the others, at some point someone decided to go for more private balconies and much more concrete and more levels - ok, maybe not so closeiowaguy wrote:Its interesting to look at the drawings for the project prepared by the good local firm of Barefoot Architect---doesn't bear much resemblance to the final product.
http://www.barefootarchitects.com/gb.html
janet
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cypressgirl
- Posts: 2178
- Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:42 pm
- Location: houston
I don't know anything about the environmental concerns of GB, but it is built, it is up and running, and I don't think anyone is going to bulldoze it down. That ship has sailed.
It took FOREVER to finish (are they finished?) and when it was being built it looked awful, but at this stage, it doesn't really bother me. We stayed at Palm Terrace Villas, which are extremely nice, but our upper level view was GROSS. We could see the water, but we had to look over the "ugly" stuff to notice it. I'd take the view from Grande Bay any day. I can see if you live there, your perspective would be different, but speaking as a tourist, if the price were right, I would not have a problem. Do they have a parking garage? Just wondering. It might as well be successful and offer something to the town, (jobs, restaurant sales, rental car leases, etc.) since it's not going away.
STJ has changed in the 20 years we've been going, but it's not all for the bad. The markets have more choices and better produce and meats, the restaurants are better, the rental cars have automatic and ac, more villas to choose from (also with ac), computer access, same beautiful beaches with more people, but still not crowded compared to most beautiful destinations. Nothing stays the same. In 20 more years, it will be different than today. So goes life.
It took FOREVER to finish (are they finished?) and when it was being built it looked awful, but at this stage, it doesn't really bother me. We stayed at Palm Terrace Villas, which are extremely nice, but our upper level view was GROSS. We could see the water, but we had to look over the "ugly" stuff to notice it. I'd take the view from Grande Bay any day. I can see if you live there, your perspective would be different, but speaking as a tourist, if the price were right, I would not have a problem. Do they have a parking garage? Just wondering. It might as well be successful and offer something to the town, (jobs, restaurant sales, rental car leases, etc.) since it's not going away.
STJ has changed in the 20 years we've been going, but it's not all for the bad. The markets have more choices and better produce and meats, the restaurants are better, the rental cars have automatic and ac, more villas to choose from (also with ac), computer access, same beautiful beaches with more people, but still not crowded compared to most beautiful destinations. Nothing stays the same. In 20 more years, it will be different than today. So goes life.
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bubblybrenda
- Posts: 549
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:57 pm
- Location: Vancouver, BC
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toes in the sand
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:21 pm
Our first trip to St John was in 1987. I fell in love with it then and am still in love with it today. I guess it is the optimist in me but I see many of the changes that have occurred as positive both for the residents and visitors like myself. I also see the problems that come with "progress". So called progress is happening in places other than St. John.
Code and zoning violations and graft are serious and need to be corrected and kept from re-occurring.
Cultures are under attack all over the world. Mine included. As a visitor I am a big part of why St John is changing. Tourism is a double edged sword. Travel is wonderful education to the world but the mere act of travel changes the world.
Like it or not the culture of the VI includes political corruption. That is one part of the local culture has not changed completely.
In my view I agree that GB does not fit the "landscape" of the island. But I think that about many of the mansions that have been built and accepted all over the island. I looked through the projects that are on the Barefoot Architect website and most do not fit my idea of the style of the island.
I thank God every day that she made us all different because it would be a boring place if everyone was perfect like me.
Code and zoning violations and graft are serious and need to be corrected and kept from re-occurring.
Cultures are under attack all over the world. Mine included. As a visitor I am a big part of why St John is changing. Tourism is a double edged sword. Travel is wonderful education to the world but the mere act of travel changes the world.
Like it or not the culture of the VI includes political corruption. That is one part of the local culture has not changed completely.
In my view I agree that GB does not fit the "landscape" of the island. But I think that about many of the mansions that have been built and accepted all over the island. I looked through the projects that are on the Barefoot Architect website and most do not fit my idea of the style of the island.
I thank God every day that she made us all different because it would be a boring place if everyone was perfect like me.
"got a drink in my hand and my toes in the sand"
In my view I agree that GB does not fit the "landscape" of the island. But I think that about many of the mansion
toes in the sand wrote:Our first trip to St John was in 1987. I fell in love with it then and am still in love with it today. I guess it is the optimist in me but I see many of the changes that have occurred as positive both for the residents and visitors like myself. I also see the problems that come with "progress". So called progress is happening in places other than St. John.
Code and zoning violations and graft are serious and need to be corrected and kept from re-occurring.
Cultures are under attack all over the world. Mine included. As a visitor I am a big part of why St John is changing. Tourism is a double edged sword. Travel is wonderful education to the world but the mere act of travel changes the world.
Like it or not the culture of the VI includes political corruption. That is one part of the local culture has not changed completely.
s that have been built and accepted all over the island. I looked through the projects that are on the Barefoot Architect website and most do not fit my idea of the style of the island.
I thank God every day that she made us all different because it would be a boring place if everyone was perfect like me.
Well said and so correct. I too wish could have seen STJ before progress found it, but we must be thankful that 2/3's of it is protected and will stay pristine.
God has a very good sense of humor, if she didn't, then wouldn't have made humans.
No ticker anymore. Next vac will prob. be the Fl Keys.
OK, I have refrained from posting again on this subject, because it's as volatile as politics, and any of us who look at the "off topic" know how bad that can get.
I know this is a travel forum, and as such, we who live here are not the main show. I am not looking for trouble. HOWEVER. Do you have any idea of how annoying it is to hear opinions voiced as if your opinions matter more than those of us who are from here? (And how many people have you met who were from here?) You may come here and spend money, that does not mean that St. John exists as merely an amenity for tourism. That is what spoils tourist destinations, and I've seen plenty of places destroyed in my lifetime, right here in the Caribbean. I know about change. I just refuse to believe that most people prefer everywhere in the world to look the same. If you can't see anything wrong with Grande Bay, you don't need to come here, surely? St. Thomas or St. Martin are a lot cheaper. Oh, we still have live coral? Only about 10% of what we had when I was young. We have relatively low crime? Only about 99% more than when I was young. A low-ish population? Only about 600% more people. A National Park? Well yes, but it's never been well managed , and it is only slightly over half the island. The most restrictive zoning we have have allows two houses of unlimited size per 1/2 acre, on ANY slope that money will level.
I fail to see how anyone can defend unlimited growth. I am not too interested in living in a world without nature. Or functioning communities.
Thank You.
I know this is a travel forum, and as such, we who live here are not the main show. I am not looking for trouble. HOWEVER. Do you have any idea of how annoying it is to hear opinions voiced as if your opinions matter more than those of us who are from here? (And how many people have you met who were from here?) You may come here and spend money, that does not mean that St. John exists as merely an amenity for tourism. That is what spoils tourist destinations, and I've seen plenty of places destroyed in my lifetime, right here in the Caribbean. I know about change. I just refuse to believe that most people prefer everywhere in the world to look the same. If you can't see anything wrong with Grande Bay, you don't need to come here, surely? St. Thomas or St. Martin are a lot cheaper. Oh, we still have live coral? Only about 10% of what we had when I was young. We have relatively low crime? Only about 99% more than when I was young. A low-ish population? Only about 600% more people. A National Park? Well yes, but it's never been well managed , and it is only slightly over half the island. The most restrictive zoning we have have allows two houses of unlimited size per 1/2 acre, on ANY slope that money will level.
I fail to see how anyone can defend unlimited growth. I am not too interested in living in a world without nature. Or functioning communities.
Thank You.
Re: Grande Bay Pool Photos
They say they will be done by this year's end?cruzanluvr wrote:Here are recent photos of the Grande Bay pool area that were sent to me by the owners who we rent from. They say pool, hot tub and gym should be done by year end.
This building will house the reception area on the first floor, the gym on the second floor with views towards the bay and the sun deck is on the 3rd floor. There is a cascading waterfall on the left.
Russ