usvi-on-line
STJ History
STJ History
How about we all share some facts, links, stories or thoughts about the history of STJ. Here's a couple links to some info to get the wheels turning:
http://www.stjohnhistoricalsociety.org/
http://www.seestjohn.com/history.html
What's your favorite STJ history bit?
http://www.stjohnhistoricalsociety.org/
http://www.seestjohn.com/history.html
What's your favorite STJ history bit?
not free yet
History always seems to be tied to religious records, doesn't it...Does this mean I must go to chrch while I'm there?
Hi Sherban!
I think it’s a good idea to start a topic about the history of STJ, but I’m Danish and the story about
“The Danish Vest India” is perhaps more interesting for a Dane. Don’t know. Let’s see!
But I will gladly participate (I saw your invitation in another topic too), and I will like to share some details about the sale of the islands. But you have to be patient. Even though I feel that the English words are coming easier to me, now I have an almost daily “dose” by reading and writing in this forum, it still takes time for me to write English. And the story about the sale is a long story. It took 60 years from the sale was mentioned for the first time until it took place
But since you have shown one of Jørgen Dyppel Iversen’s declarations I will tell a little about him and how he died.
Soon come!
Linne
I think it’s a good idea to start a topic about the history of STJ, but I’m Danish and the story about
“The Danish Vest India” is perhaps more interesting for a Dane. Don’t know. Let’s see!
But I will gladly participate (I saw your invitation in another topic too), and I will like to share some details about the sale of the islands. But you have to be patient. Even though I feel that the English words are coming easier to me, now I have an almost daily “dose” by reading and writing in this forum, it still takes time for me to write English. And the story about the sale is a long story. It took 60 years from the sale was mentioned for the first time until it took place
But since you have shown one of Jørgen Dyppel Iversen’s declarations I will tell a little about him and how he died.
Soon come!
Linne
Here some history about Jørgen Iversen Dyppel:
From about 1640 there were several Danish ships in The Vest India, and in 1666 the Danish occupied the uninhabited STT. But they had no success with the colonisation and many died.
In 1672 the Danish Vest India Company was founded and the company hired an experienced man, Jørgen Iversen Dyppel, and send him to STT as a governor. With him from Denmark he had 123 persons, some of them women, who were found in the prison (imprisoned because of “bad behaviour”). Others were workmen and public officers. But more than half of them died during the journey or during the first six months on the island. Still JIV succeeded in building Christiansfort, and he began to colonize the island.
In 1675 JID occupied STJ too, although both the Spanish and the English protested and said that it was their land. But such a small islands didn’t really mean anything to them, so they did nothing. JID left some men on STJ just to show other nations that DK had the sovereignty over the island. The real colonization started about 1716 and ten years later there were more than hundred plantations on the island.
One of JID’s first orders as a governor was the shown about mandatory church attendance for all settlers. He was very religious himself and lived austere. He was also a very strict man; both the whites and the blacks were punished hard, if they didn’t follow the rules. He was also very strong and ambitious. But during the years he got problems, he became sick, and he was lonely. His wife was still in Denmark, she was pregnant, when he left, later on war prevented her to come, and in 1679 he got the message that she was dead. So as a lot of the others on the island, he began to drink too much “kildevil”, an immature rum. In 1680 he gave up and left.
Back in DK he became better and found a new wife. The new governor on STT, Esmit, was terrible, and JID was asked, if he would go back. He accepted, and in 1682 he again tried to find men to come with him. But this time it was very difficult, people knew that too many lost their lives either during the journey or on the island. (Remember there were no vaccinations or penicillin at that time). So he had to hire some convicted prisoners and promised them their freedom, when they arrived. This time he brought his new wife with him even though, she also was pregnant. But the journey became a disaster. The baby was born, but died, the prisoners mutinied, and JID was thrown overboard. So this pioneer ended his life in a sad way!
The governor Esmit was replaced by his brother. He was an awful governor too, but that’s another story!
Linne
From about 1640 there were several Danish ships in The Vest India, and in 1666 the Danish occupied the uninhabited STT. But they had no success with the colonisation and many died.
In 1672 the Danish Vest India Company was founded and the company hired an experienced man, Jørgen Iversen Dyppel, and send him to STT as a governor. With him from Denmark he had 123 persons, some of them women, who were found in the prison (imprisoned because of “bad behaviour”). Others were workmen and public officers. But more than half of them died during the journey or during the first six months on the island. Still JIV succeeded in building Christiansfort, and he began to colonize the island.
In 1675 JID occupied STJ too, although both the Spanish and the English protested and said that it was their land. But such a small islands didn’t really mean anything to them, so they did nothing. JID left some men on STJ just to show other nations that DK had the sovereignty over the island. The real colonization started about 1716 and ten years later there were more than hundred plantations on the island.
One of JID’s first orders as a governor was the shown about mandatory church attendance for all settlers. He was very religious himself and lived austere. He was also a very strict man; both the whites and the blacks were punished hard, if they didn’t follow the rules. He was also very strong and ambitious. But during the years he got problems, he became sick, and he was lonely. His wife was still in Denmark, she was pregnant, when he left, later on war prevented her to come, and in 1679 he got the message that she was dead. So as a lot of the others on the island, he began to drink too much “kildevil”, an immature rum. In 1680 he gave up and left.
Back in DK he became better and found a new wife. The new governor on STT, Esmit, was terrible, and JID was asked, if he would go back. He accepted, and in 1682 he again tried to find men to come with him. But this time it was very difficult, people knew that too many lost their lives either during the journey or on the island. (Remember there were no vaccinations or penicillin at that time). So he had to hire some convicted prisoners and promised them their freedom, when they arrived. This time he brought his new wife with him even though, she also was pregnant. But the journey became a disaster. The baby was born, but died, the prisoners mutinied, and JID was thrown overboard. So this pioneer ended his life in a sad way!
The governor Esmit was replaced by his brother. He was an awful governor too, but that’s another story!
Linne
Thanks Linne, The histories are always different when told by different nationalities or religions, I appreciate you sharing your perspective with us. I will try to be patient (it is hard for me). I appreciate you translating this into English for us...Americans are hopelessly self centric when it comes to languages...I am totally guilty of that.
The history of the Caribbean is interesting...I am s-l-o-w-l-y learning!
I know that the US wanted to buy the Virgin Islands to have strategic military posts in the Caribbean but I am not clear on why the Danish would sell (besides money, of course)...do tell...
Thanks!
The history of the Caribbean is interesting...I am s-l-o-w-l-y learning!
I know that the US wanted to buy the Virgin Islands to have strategic military posts in the Caribbean but I am not clear on why the Danish would sell (besides money, of course)...do tell...
Thanks!
Last edited by sherban on Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy Benjamin has written a couple of books about growing up in the East End before the tourist era on STJ. He may be the oldest living person born on the island and still does a yearly presentation through Friends of the Park.
Another worthwhile book is the Night of the Silent Drums, which chronicles the slave rebellion on the island.
Another worthwhile book is the Night of the Silent Drums, which chronicles the slave rebellion on the island.
Yes, Tom, I must say that I admire all these pioneers. Both in STT and STX we visited the old Danish churchyard. So many lots, so many who died young.
Lex, the story about the slave rebellion on STJ is very cruel. So many people lost their lives.
We tried, if we could find the old fort, where the rebellion started, but gave up. I didn’t know
about the book, you mention. Must be interesting because the story contains not only cruelty, but also many other aspects of the human being.
Sherban, I have started to write parts of the story about the sale, although it seems, as if not many are interested in history. But some are, and perhaps I learn some new English words by doing it.
Linne
Lex, the story about the slave rebellion on STJ is very cruel. So many people lost their lives.
We tried, if we could find the old fort, where the rebellion started, but gave up. I didn’t know
about the book, you mention. Must be interesting because the story contains not only cruelty, but also many other aspects of the human being.
Sherban, I have started to write parts of the story about the sale, although it seems, as if not many are interested in history. But some are, and perhaps I learn some new English words by doing it.
Linne
Linne- I found some great pictures, post cards and atricles on the SJHS website.
There is also an articled dedicated to the US aquisition of the the islands...I wonder if the Danish story of the sale is the same as the American story?
http://www.stjohnhistoricalsociety.org/ ... sition.htm
There is also an articled dedicated to the US aquisition of the the islands...I wonder if the Danish story of the sale is the same as the American story?
http://www.stjohnhistoricalsociety.org/ ... sition.htm
Hi Sherban!
Here is my story about the sale. The same as the one you mention, but with more details.
Hope yoy enjoy to learn a little more.
Why did Denmark sell the islands?
Denmark occupied STT about 1666, a few years later STJ was occupied too, while STX was bought from France in 1733.
But after having owned the islands for nearly 250 years, the islands were sold to the Americans.
But why did DK sell? That I think is an interesting story. I have told parts of the story here.
Perhaps some of you would like to know a little more about the history of the islands.
The economy
The first many years DK didn’t have much money from the islands, too many ships were lost,there were conflicts with the planters etc.. But the time from about 1750 until about 1830 was a “golden age”. The sugar prices in Europe rose, and the harbour in STT was very busy. At that time there were many wars in Europe,but DK remained neutral, which meant that Danish ships could sail with goods without being attacked. Many businessmen made a fortune, and in Copenhagen and other places there are still many beautiful buildings, which are built for the money earned at that time.
From about 1830 the economy wasn’t so good anymore. Especially in STX there was problems, more countries had begun to produce sugar, and the harvest failed for some years. And the planters had lived a luxury life without saving money for bad years. In STT it was better, the harbour was still busy with many coal depots. After the emancipation in 1848 things get worse, and in DK the interest for the islands felt.
1852
For the first time it was discussed in the parliament, if DK should sell the islands, but the majority was against a sale - thought that the islands still could be useful for the country.
1864
DK had been in war, had lost and know that we probably would loose a part of the country. So confidentially the government asked Preussen (now Germany), if DK perhaps could avoid giving land up, if Preussen got the islands. The answer was no. The rumour about that reached USA. Here there was war between North and South, and ships from both places used the harbour in STT. The North American navy found it important that they had a strategic strongpoint in the Caribbean, also they didn’t want that Preussen and Austria got influence in the territory. So the Danish Foreign Minister in USA was invited to a dinner party and asked, if we perhaps would sell the islands. However, the Danish king, who just had lost a part of the country, said no, not now, perhaps later. But shortly after all negotiation stopped, Lincoln was murdered!
1866 - 70
A new government in DK propose USA that they buy the islands for 25 million dollars.But the Congress in USA tells the new president Johnson that the price is too high. USA has just bought Alaska from Russia for 7 million dollars. After many discussions it ends up with a treaty, after which USA only should buy STT and STJ for 7,5 million dollars. There were voted about a sale in both the islands and the two houses of the Danish parliament. Both in DK and on the island it was a yes for a sale. But in 1867 there is a hurricane and later on an earth crake on STT, which destroys a lot. The press in USA began to criticise the treaty, why pay so much for a ruined island? So in 1870 the case stops, the American senate refuse to ratify the treaty! The Danish are disappointed, but there was nothing they could do.
1895-1902
Both in DK and in USA there are still some influential persons, who work for a sale. In DK some of these persons hire an agent, a Danish - American journalist, who has contact to the republicans in USA. One of them, senator Henry Lodge, is a keen spokesman for USA’s buy of the islands. But the negotiations with the agent are making slow progress. So another agent tries to use the situation. He makes an arrangement about buying a big part of the properties on STJ, and then he communicates with the German. He proposes that they secretly shall colonize STJ, so it will be difficult for the Americans to prevent a takeover. But the German do not agree. After that he tries if he can persuade the Americans to buy. Some rumours starts about the methods, and now the press in USA again plays a roll. They insinuate that the republicans have accepted to receive bribery from the first agent. And again the case stops for a while, and none of the agents have luck despite of their efforts.
But there are still rumours about a German purchase, and the foreign minister in USA John Hay
get interest in the island. He can see that STT has some strategic advantages, especially due to the
coming Panama canal. So the negotiation starts again. And this time it ends up with a treaty so that USA only shall pay 3,5 million for all three islands. Compared to the further treaty where the price was 7,5 million for STT and STJ, it’s a very low price.
The treaty has to be ratified in both countries. In USA the answer is yes, but in DK it doesn’t go so easy. One of the houses in the parliament says yes, but in the other house, where there are many conservative members, there is a strong opposition. The day for the voting an ambulance drives to Jutland to bring two conservative, elderly, (83 and 96 year), very weakened members to Copenhagen, so they can take part in the voting. And their votes became decisive. There was the same number of votes for a yes as for a no, which means that the treaty is rejected. This time it's the Americans there are disappointed, but there are nothing they can do.
The economy after 1902
There are still problems with the economy. The planters try to get income from other activities than the sugar for example different crops and animal husbandry. A dairy is started. But it’s not enough. Also the harbour in STT has a fall. There are strikes, and there is a bad hurricane, so the future doesn’t look promising. People were looking forward to the opening of the Panama Canal, but when it finally opened, First World War started.
1916-1917
The Danish government wish more and more to sell the islands. Not only because they loose money on the island, but also because of the fear that Germany just will take the control over them. DK is not strong enough to resist. So perhaps they wouldn’t get any money for the islands at all. In USA the government also was afraid that DK itself perhaps would come under control of Germany. So very secretly new negotiations were started. The government in DK made it clearly that the price had to be high, so that Germany understood that caused the economy, they couldn’t say no to the offer.
The final treaty
After many negotiations a treaty was signed for the third time. The price was now 25 million dollars and what was very important for us, USA agreed to recognize our right to the whole of Greenland.
In USA the treaty get acknowledged very easy. But in DK there are problems. The government has several times denied that negotiations about a sale were going on, they were afraid of Germany’s reaction, but when the public found out that it wasn’t true, it cost a scandal. An election is mentioned. The king intervenes and the result is that a commission shall investigate the different opportunities, come with a conclusion, after which a referendum shall take place. After some month the commission has finished their work, and they are for a sale. Now the referendum is prepared.The discussion about a sale has made a great stir, and there are very strong and different opinions about it. The newspapers take emotional part in the discussion, and different well-known persons tell their opinion. Some say that it is a national catastrophe to sell out of Danish land, what will the next be? Other say that it’s much more important that we now have the right to the whole of Greenland. A temperance society means that it’s fine, if we sell these rum infested islands, and many say that if the population on the islands wish to belong to USA, we have to respect that. The referendum takes place in December 1916, and it’s the first time the women are allowed to vote!!! The result is a yes for the sale! So later in December the Danish king can sign the treaty and in January 1917 president Wilson can sign too.
The transfer
The transfer ceremonies were held in both STT and STX in March 1917. On STJ the ceremony didn’t take place before in April, when the new governor arrived.
The ceremony in STT was the most impressive. It took place in front of Legislature Building near the fort. From DK it was a Danish general, substituted as governor, who formally should hand over the islands. USA was represented with commander Pollock. The general later on told in his memories that it was the saddest moment in his life, he couldn’t understand the decision of selling the islands.
But I have to admit that to day I would have found it very strange, if little Denmark still should be the owner of these special islands so far away. I think it’s better for them to belong to USA. But of course it could have been funny, if our vacation last year was to a part of Denmark instead of a part of USA.
But I don't claim the islands back.
Linne
Here is my story about the sale. The same as the one you mention, but with more details.
Hope yoy enjoy to learn a little more.
Why did Denmark sell the islands?
Denmark occupied STT about 1666, a few years later STJ was occupied too, while STX was bought from France in 1733.
But after having owned the islands for nearly 250 years, the islands were sold to the Americans.
But why did DK sell? That I think is an interesting story. I have told parts of the story here.
Perhaps some of you would like to know a little more about the history of the islands.
The economy
The first many years DK didn’t have much money from the islands, too many ships were lost,there were conflicts with the planters etc.. But the time from about 1750 until about 1830 was a “golden age”. The sugar prices in Europe rose, and the harbour in STT was very busy. At that time there were many wars in Europe,but DK remained neutral, which meant that Danish ships could sail with goods without being attacked. Many businessmen made a fortune, and in Copenhagen and other places there are still many beautiful buildings, which are built for the money earned at that time.
From about 1830 the economy wasn’t so good anymore. Especially in STX there was problems, more countries had begun to produce sugar, and the harvest failed for some years. And the planters had lived a luxury life without saving money for bad years. In STT it was better, the harbour was still busy with many coal depots. After the emancipation in 1848 things get worse, and in DK the interest for the islands felt.
1852
For the first time it was discussed in the parliament, if DK should sell the islands, but the majority was against a sale - thought that the islands still could be useful for the country.
1864
DK had been in war, had lost and know that we probably would loose a part of the country. So confidentially the government asked Preussen (now Germany), if DK perhaps could avoid giving land up, if Preussen got the islands. The answer was no. The rumour about that reached USA. Here there was war between North and South, and ships from both places used the harbour in STT. The North American navy found it important that they had a strategic strongpoint in the Caribbean, also they didn’t want that Preussen and Austria got influence in the territory. So the Danish Foreign Minister in USA was invited to a dinner party and asked, if we perhaps would sell the islands. However, the Danish king, who just had lost a part of the country, said no, not now, perhaps later. But shortly after all negotiation stopped, Lincoln was murdered!
1866 - 70
A new government in DK propose USA that they buy the islands for 25 million dollars.But the Congress in USA tells the new president Johnson that the price is too high. USA has just bought Alaska from Russia for 7 million dollars. After many discussions it ends up with a treaty, after which USA only should buy STT and STJ for 7,5 million dollars. There were voted about a sale in both the islands and the two houses of the Danish parliament. Both in DK and on the island it was a yes for a sale. But in 1867 there is a hurricane and later on an earth crake on STT, which destroys a lot. The press in USA began to criticise the treaty, why pay so much for a ruined island? So in 1870 the case stops, the American senate refuse to ratify the treaty! The Danish are disappointed, but there was nothing they could do.
1895-1902
Both in DK and in USA there are still some influential persons, who work for a sale. In DK some of these persons hire an agent, a Danish - American journalist, who has contact to the republicans in USA. One of them, senator Henry Lodge, is a keen spokesman for USA’s buy of the islands. But the negotiations with the agent are making slow progress. So another agent tries to use the situation. He makes an arrangement about buying a big part of the properties on STJ, and then he communicates with the German. He proposes that they secretly shall colonize STJ, so it will be difficult for the Americans to prevent a takeover. But the German do not agree. After that he tries if he can persuade the Americans to buy. Some rumours starts about the methods, and now the press in USA again plays a roll. They insinuate that the republicans have accepted to receive bribery from the first agent. And again the case stops for a while, and none of the agents have luck despite of their efforts.
But there are still rumours about a German purchase, and the foreign minister in USA John Hay
get interest in the island. He can see that STT has some strategic advantages, especially due to the
coming Panama canal. So the negotiation starts again. And this time it ends up with a treaty so that USA only shall pay 3,5 million for all three islands. Compared to the further treaty where the price was 7,5 million for STT and STJ, it’s a very low price.
The treaty has to be ratified in both countries. In USA the answer is yes, but in DK it doesn’t go so easy. One of the houses in the parliament says yes, but in the other house, where there are many conservative members, there is a strong opposition. The day for the voting an ambulance drives to Jutland to bring two conservative, elderly, (83 and 96 year), very weakened members to Copenhagen, so they can take part in the voting. And their votes became decisive. There was the same number of votes for a yes as for a no, which means that the treaty is rejected. This time it's the Americans there are disappointed, but there are nothing they can do.
The economy after 1902
There are still problems with the economy. The planters try to get income from other activities than the sugar for example different crops and animal husbandry. A dairy is started. But it’s not enough. Also the harbour in STT has a fall. There are strikes, and there is a bad hurricane, so the future doesn’t look promising. People were looking forward to the opening of the Panama Canal, but when it finally opened, First World War started.
1916-1917
The Danish government wish more and more to sell the islands. Not only because they loose money on the island, but also because of the fear that Germany just will take the control over them. DK is not strong enough to resist. So perhaps they wouldn’t get any money for the islands at all. In USA the government also was afraid that DK itself perhaps would come under control of Germany. So very secretly new negotiations were started. The government in DK made it clearly that the price had to be high, so that Germany understood that caused the economy, they couldn’t say no to the offer.
The final treaty
After many negotiations a treaty was signed for the third time. The price was now 25 million dollars and what was very important for us, USA agreed to recognize our right to the whole of Greenland.
In USA the treaty get acknowledged very easy. But in DK there are problems. The government has several times denied that negotiations about a sale were going on, they were afraid of Germany’s reaction, but when the public found out that it wasn’t true, it cost a scandal. An election is mentioned. The king intervenes and the result is that a commission shall investigate the different opportunities, come with a conclusion, after which a referendum shall take place. After some month the commission has finished their work, and they are for a sale. Now the referendum is prepared.The discussion about a sale has made a great stir, and there are very strong and different opinions about it. The newspapers take emotional part in the discussion, and different well-known persons tell their opinion. Some say that it is a national catastrophe to sell out of Danish land, what will the next be? Other say that it’s much more important that we now have the right to the whole of Greenland. A temperance society means that it’s fine, if we sell these rum infested islands, and many say that if the population on the islands wish to belong to USA, we have to respect that. The referendum takes place in December 1916, and it’s the first time the women are allowed to vote!!! The result is a yes for the sale! So later in December the Danish king can sign the treaty and in January 1917 president Wilson can sign too.
The transfer
The transfer ceremonies were held in both STT and STX in March 1917. On STJ the ceremony didn’t take place before in April, when the new governor arrived.
The ceremony in STT was the most impressive. It took place in front of Legislature Building near the fort. From DK it was a Danish general, substituted as governor, who formally should hand over the islands. USA was represented with commander Pollock. The general later on told in his memories that it was the saddest moment in his life, he couldn’t understand the decision of selling the islands.
But I have to admit that to day I would have found it very strange, if little Denmark still should be the owner of these special islands so far away. I think it’s better for them to belong to USA. But of course it could have been funny, if our vacation last year was to a part of Denmark instead of a part of USA.
But I don't claim the islands back.
Linne
thanks Linne!
Linne- Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to tell the story through Denmark's eyes. I really appreciate the fact that you worked hard to translate into English for us. Surely this is one of the advantages of internet forums...people from all over the world can tell the story the way they want to. My family came to the US from somewhere near Germany in ~1750... into Pennsylvania I spent hundreds of hours trying to find where my ancestors came from in Europe,,,maybe some day!
Thanks again-
BTW our name in the 1700s was Scherbaum, I think...
Thanks again-
BTW our name in the 1700s was Scherbaum, I think...
Linne,
First, I must say how impressed I am with your written English.
I am enjoying your posts as this is the type of history that interests me. When we travel, I tend to go overboard and educate my family against their will because I assume they are as interested in the facts and I am.
Reading history about our destinations is a hobby of mine, as is reading local newspapers and following local business and economic news.
Currently, I am reading Night of the Silent Drums and am about halfway through the book. In fact, I couldn’t sleep last night and read from 2:30 am to 5 am. Reading a book about slavery and human suffering is not a good way to spend the darkest hours of the night but the writing is so interesting, I couldn’t put it down.
First, I must say how impressed I am with your written English.
I am enjoying your posts as this is the type of history that interests me. When we travel, I tend to go overboard and educate my family against their will because I assume they are as interested in the facts and I am.
Reading history about our destinations is a hobby of mine, as is reading local newspapers and following local business and economic news.
Currently, I am reading Night of the Silent Drums and am about halfway through the book. In fact, I couldn’t sleep last night and read from 2:30 am to 5 am. Reading a book about slavery and human suffering is not a good way to spend the darkest hours of the night but the writing is so interesting, I couldn’t put it down.
-
silverheels
- Posts: 890
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:18 am
- Location: The Nutmeg State
Linne,
You've made this so interesting for us. Thank you for taking the time. As a history teacher I appreciate the way you set up your "lesson". Maybe someone on island could copy this and bring it to a school on STJ or STT. You're English translation was superb. Congratulations!
Hope Ronnie reads this.
You've made this so interesting for us. Thank you for taking the time. As a history teacher I appreciate the way you set up your "lesson". Maybe someone on island could copy this and bring it to a school on STJ or STT. You're English translation was superb. Congratulations!
Hope Ronnie reads this.