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[Terry]

You know what...some folks have some serious problems. Let's just remember that...okay sox?

[soxfan22]

Maryanne - Thank you. I take that as the highest of compliments.

The thing that bothers me, however, is that none of the liberals on this board are ever expected to amend any of their views. I see people like flip, loria and a few others who are as strong and adament in their views as I am in mine.

I actually don't think I am that far to the right. Do you know who Michael Savage is? He is perhaps the most far right radio personality on Earth. I simply cannot listen to him. He is waaayyy too over the top even for me.

I think my views are pretty traditional America:

low taxes
small government
pro-life
strong national defense
personal responsibility - you get what you earn

The one where people on this board have had the biggest issue with me is the pro-life issue.

I have always liked this quote by the great Winston Churchill:

"If you are in your 20's and not a liberal, you have no heart...If you are in your 40's and not a conservative, you have no brain"

His words, not mine. But I actually think that as people age, they become more conservative in their views rather than liberal. They want less gvt in their lives...They realize they have worked HARD to accumulate whatever wealth they have, and they don't want government dishing it out to others who have not been as successful...etc etc.

[soxfan22]

You know what...some folks have some serious problems. Let's just remember that...okay sox?

I get it, Terry. But for people who do have real problems, we already have federal programs to help them out. Do we really need more? And if so, what is the tipping point before we are really nothing more than a nanny state? People love to brand conservatives non-compassionate, but sometimes tough love is the remedy. Sometimes, government can't solve everyone's problems.

Can you name me one government enitity/program (other than the military) that the goverment has done a good job running/administering?

If our founding fathers were here today, I think they would be appalled at some of the policies we have implemented (including the bailout).

[Pete (Mr. Marcia)]

Sox, I think what Maryanne was saying is very similar to what I said to you on the other post.

Your passion and research are admirable. But, time and seasoning (gravitas was the word I used) may temper your approach over time.

[Maryanne]

I, too, admired that Churchill quote when I was a bit younger, and I still agree with it to a certain extent, but honestly, I really don't care so much now. I have more than I need. I have more than most of the people on earth have. I could die now, or be poor now, and think, wow, I am grateful because I had....(and then I would tick off every great experience, vacation, STJ, etc. that I've had the immense good fortune to have).


"I like to pay taxes. With them I buy civilization."

---Oliver Wendell Holmes.

[soxfan22]

I, too, admired that Churchill quote when I was a bit younger, and I still agree with it to a certain extent, but honestly, I really don't care so much now. I have more than I need. I have more than most of the people on earth have. I could die now, or be poor now, and think, wow, I am grateful because I had....(and then I would tick off every great experience, vacation, STJ, etc. that I've had the immense good fortune to have).


"I like to pay taxes. With them I buy civilization."

---Oliver Wendell Holmes.

With all due respect, Maryanne...For me, it's not about MY MONEY. I will probably get a tax break on my income from Obama. For me, it's the principle. What are we teaching people? By government taking from one to give to the other, we are undermining the importance and nobility of charity. We are teaching our children that if things don't go as planned in your life, government will be there to save you.

It's also about economic principles. The goal of taxes is to raise money for the federal government in order to pay for the needs of society, correct?

Well, history has always proven that the best way to increase revenues to the federal government is to lower taxes. This is the problem I have with the left...It is a beautiful thing that you think you have more than you could ever need. But the best way for you to help raise revenues it to spend and invest your money. And if you so choose - by all means give to charity.

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[Maryanne]

I just think the fears are waaaaaay too exaggerated, in the way that all election issues are exaggerated.... (how appropriate, I've stayed up late and now it's Halloween... ooooooooh...Obama's going to do this, do that, watch out!!!..... ) Fortunately, one person doesn't have that kind of power (unless he's Dick Cheney).

It's just time for the pendulum to swing back !

Good night!

[Maryanne]

But one more point:

After reading Obama's autobiography, I felt much closer to him. For the first time in my life, I realized what it was to really care, and worry about a public figure. I was a baby and little kid during the turbulent 60s and of course only witnessed the emotion that the killings of JFK, MLK, and RFK evoked. Now I understand.

My heart goes out to him. Regardless of what anyone thinks about him politically, he is undoubtedly a good and decent man who accepts that he is essentially risking his life to pursue a greater good that will pull all of us, hopefully, one step closer to..... ?

[soxfan22]

But one more point:

After reading Obama's autobiography, I felt much closer to him. For the first time in my life, I realized what it was to really care, and worry about a public figure. I was a baby and little kid during the turbulent 60s and of course only witnessed the emotion that the killings of JFK, MLK, and RFK evoked. Now I understand.

My heart goes out to him. Regardless of what anyone thinks about him politically, he is undoubtedly a good and decent man who accepts that he is essentially risking his life to pursue a greater good that will pull all of us, hopefully, one step closer to..... ?

socialism.- c'mon maryanne...you set that on a tee for me!

Obama is no JFK...No RFK...and good LORD! He is certainly no Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr!

He is a guy who was editor of the Harvard Law Review, became a community organizer, served a few years in the Illinois state senate, then a couple of years in the US senate...Then ran for president.

You have an emotional attachment to him - so I will not even try to go there. Just please, when he's in office, can you try to have an open mind to the things he is trying to accomplish?

Fortunately, one person doesn't have that kind of power (unless he's Dick Cheney).

Now that is what folks on my side are probably scared the most about. He will absolutely have that type of power. He will have pretty much, unprecedented power for a president in the modern era. He will have, for the first two years minimum, Democratic majorities in the House and Senate. The leaders there will be Reid and Pelosi - two of the most liberal cats around.

There will be absolutely NO checks and balances on a president (gulp) Obama. IF he screws anything up with that unchecked power (and as SJ says, he's never led a group of kids across a crosswalk before), do you know how long it will take us to fix it? It would be decades.

This would not be a pendulum shift - This would be a Tectonic Shift in the history of the world.

[loria]

soxfans research???

soundbites and obfuscation maybe, but
RESEARCH?????

[soxfan22]

soxfans research???

soundbites and obfuscation maybe, but
RESEARCH?????

Loria - I have forgotten more about history than you will ever know. Don't you have a tree to hug somewhere?

[flip-flop]

Sox, I think what Maryanne was saying is very similar to what I said to you on the other post.

Your passion and research are admirable. But, time and seasoning (gravitas was the word I used) may temper your approach over time.

Pete - It sounds like you want Sox to be like Obama. From day 1 of the political posts all I heard from evryone on the left was stop posting Sox. Don't bring that here Sox. You guys tried to supress him, but dispite sever opposition, he stuck to his points and never waivered even when called a racist. Sox and I agree on most political issues and it is easy for me to read his posts and blog. Like Jorge said earlier, I would sit down and have a beer with anyone on this forum. I don't consider political differences a reason to exclude a friend to the real party.

Not true from my point of view. Many, many, many of my posts have been SPECIFICALLY to keep Sox talking ... I like the back and forth I think you learn a lot more that way.

[flip-flop]

Regardless of what anyone thinks about him politically, he is undoubtedly a good and decent man who accepts that he is essentially risking his life to pursue a greater good that will pull all of us, hopefully, one step closer to..... ?

AMEN to that Maryanne. My issues is not and has never been someone not liking what Obama is proposing. What infuriates me is the smears to make him out to by the opposite of what he is. I engaged primarily in these discussions when I saw buzz words and fear tactics being employed vs. facts.

He's a commie/socialist/anti-american/terrorist/infanticide proponent.

On the left there is continued respect and admiration for Mccain (esp the Mccain 1.0). There is confusion as to what he truly believes --- is this McCain the real McCain or was it the other guy who was more shall we say moderate.

Again, there is only one party making this about the "real" america vs. the other america, the Pro-America america vs. the rest of us heathens, "real" Virginia vs. Northern Virginia, christains vs. muslims, intellectualism vs. joe 6 pack.

[linne]

But I actually think that as people age, they become more conservative in their views rather than liberal. They want less gvt in their lives...They realize they have worked HARD to accumulate whatever wealth they have, and they don't want government dishing it out to others who have not been as successful...etc etc.

Sorry Sox, that's not my experience. I admit that I'm being more conservative since my youth, but that's because I have lived a long life and can see that the world isn't black and white. It isn't because I want to accumulate my wealth.

Like others I admire your passion, but at the same time I feel sorry for you. I don't think that any of the people to the "left" are so terrified by the thougt that McCain wins, as you are with the thought that Obama wins. I don't know how Obama will be as a president, but I'm sure, he will not be allowed to be so bad, as you think.

Can it in anyway comfort you that most people all around in the world want Obama to win? I think some of them feel like me. I like the Americans, but I can see that they have created hate to themselves mostly using soldiers and weapon to solve a problem.

Have a nice Halloween all of you!

Linne