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flip-flop · Post by **flip-flop** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:00 pm

soxfan22 wrote:
So does Pakistan as an "ally" gets an exemption from the "you are a training ground for terrorists" so we will go to war with you argument?

I don't believe Bush ever said that if you train terrorists that we will "go to war with you". He has said nations who support terror will be dealt with, but as you know war is not the only deterrent.

Ok, then why did we go to war vs. dealing with it in some other way in Iraq?

loria · Post by **loria** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:43 pm

as long as we are bouncing around on different topics, how about an insiders view about the current admin and what Palin could/would bring to the table as VP

from todays paper (salt lake tribune)

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_10849679

hawksnestbay · Post by **hawksnestbay** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:45 pm

Most of you should try substituting "Democrat and Republican" and "Liberal and Conservative" with "Sunni and Shiite" or "Muslim and Christian".

Then you may see that right and wrong are dependent on which side of the fence you stand on.

Sorry for the interuption.

Jimmy Carter, who is probabley one of the finest humanitarians to give service to our country, and whose strength is bringing people together, was still in Office when the negotiations to release the hostages were settled. They were settled though, not by what Carter did, but the fear of what Ronald Reagan would do.

This is the greatest country in the world, providing more relief than any other.

mia · Post by **mia** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:53 pm

Never mind......

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:57 pm

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DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:01 pm

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soxfan22 · Post by **soxfan22** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:01 pm

flip-flop wrote:
soxfan22 wrote:
So does Pakistan as an "ally" gets an exemption from the "you are a training ground for terrorists" so we will go to war with you argument?

I don't believe Bush ever said that if you train terrorists that we will "go to war with you". He has said nations who support terror will be dealt with, but as you know war is not the only deterrent.

Ok, then why did we go to war vs. dealing with it in some other way in Iraq?

Um, we did. There were 16 UN resolutions that Saddam ignored. 16. Not 1 - Not 10. 16.

So, you're of the opinion the world would've been better off had we left that genocidist in power?

I for one, was happy to see him hang.

Maryanne · Post by **Maryanne** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:05 pm

>>...you may see that right and wrong are dependent on which side of the fence you stand on.

Sorry for the interuption.
>>

A nice interruption, and a reminder that Jimmy Carter is a humanitarian and was much-needed balm, at the time of his election. I was a young first-time voter, an Independent, who did not vote for him, yet through the years, I have come to respect the man more and more.

It's all about balance, isn't it? Imagine if we swung too far to the left, too far to the right.

I guess I've never liked fences, and certainly never liked being on one side or the other. I live in a blue state yet my favorite governor was Bill Weld. My gut often goes with the Democrats but my husband and I have worked hard and like to think that we can decide where our charity goes. I do understand where the Republicans come from, but McCain lost me when he lost his compass. Right after he chose Palin, I read Obama's autobiography, published in 1995, and felt real relief. Very very impressive. He is a thoughtful, introspective person who could have had a very easy life, but has felt compelled to do more. He's intelligent, self-made, and tries to bring people together. After 8 years of Bush, I'm ready for Obama.

soxfan22 · Post by **soxfan22** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:07 pm

hawksnestbay wrote:They were settled though, not by what Carter did, but the fear of what Ronald Reagan would do.

And that, Hawksnest, is why we have not had an attack on this country since 2001 (you may or may not agree, I understand). Replace the word Reagan with Bush. Well, that and things like The Patriot Act and of course, our military.

Under Obama, the Patriot Act will go away and the size of our military is likey to be reduced.

That does NOT make me feel safe.

loria · Post by **loria** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:08 pm

i don't think that anyone of us here is a mideast scholar (although i could be wrong)
but there are religious and tribal and political influences that preclude sweeping statements such as 'they all hate us'--although when you see what the press covers i can see how one might believe that
however,
at it's most basic ,islam is a religion of tolerance.

jimg20 · Post by **jimg20** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:49 pm

[quote="David- n Hampton, VA"]Sailorgirl......you misunderstand.....the issue is does America (the vast sheep filled 300M strong America) understand the things required of the sheep dogs to protect them from the wolves?

My understanding is that the answer is no./quote]

I am sorry that I can't spend any more time on this tonight. So I'm gong to stop here before the "You Can't Handle the Truth" speach starts.

We cannot allow our elected leaders, appointed leaders, military leaders or our civilian population to reduce this big world to sheep/sheep dogs/wolves choices when the world is so much more complex than that. This is the kind of reasoning (your either for us or against us) that got us into Iraq.

Say good night Gracie.

JIM

sailorgirl · Post by **sailorgirl** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:03 pm

hawksnestbay wrote:Most of you should try substituting "Democrat and Republican" and "Liberal and Conservative" with "Sunni and Shiite" or "Muslim and Christian".

Then you may see that right and wrong are dependent on which side of the fence you stand on.

Well Said!

Maryanne · Post by **Maryanne** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:12 pm

sailorgirl wrote:
hawksnestbay wrote:Most of you should try substituting "Democrat and Republican" and "Liberal and Conservative" with "Sunni and Shiite" or "Muslim and Christian".

Then you may see that right and wrong are dependent on which side of the fence you stand on.

Well Said!

VERY well said. Growing up, visiting Ireland a lot, and then marrying a man from Ireland, I realized it wasn't really about "The Protestants and the Catholics." That makes it sound so easy, so black and white. Who really believes that life is so easily carved into right and wrong?

bayer40601 · Post by **bayer40601** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:13 pm

Iraq and the entire mid east is not a modern society. You can see it in how they set up their parliment. It is based on religious sects just like when they were in the desert 100 years ago. It might work, I don't know.

If this is true, and I believe it is, then why the heck is the current Administration so intent on attempting to export democracy to this part of the world? Stubborness or ignorance?

loria · Post by **loria** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:21 pm

bayer40601 wrote:
Iraq and the entire mid east is not a modern society. You can see it in how they set up their parliment. It is based on religious sects just like when they were in the desert 100 years ago. It might work, I don't know.
If this is true, and I believe it is, then why the heck is the current Administration so intent on attempting to export democracy to this part of the world? Stubborness or ignorance?

not sure i agree with any of it, but the answer is OIL.
stupid crap.

yeah and exxon mobil just posted a RECORD 14.8 BILLION QUARTERLY PROFIT

but they shouldn't pay more taxes, NO NO NO that would be UNAMERICAN.

usvi-on-line

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